Comments on No Man's Land?: Cochin Metro: Essential or Extravagance?

Present Kochi doesn't require Metro but think ...

2011-10-14T12:15:08.316+01:00

Present Kochi doesn't require Metro but think abt the future. Implementing Metro at that time will kill us. Implementing it now will make things easy then. Metro may look expensive now, even train was expensive at a time. Think abt future, if this is laid then need not look back for far some years. At that time it becomes a big gain.

The Metro Rail project in Cochin should be launche...

2011-09-11T07:20:01.372+01:00

The Metro Rail project in Cochin should be launched with least difficulty to the general public. But why the construction is being commenced from Cochin ? If the same is constructed from the Aluva, the starting point, the inconvenience to the general public in Cochin City will be only for a limited period. Now the work will be done in Cochin City first and the entire traffic congestion should last till the construction at the end point, is complete. Is the project is intended to cause difficulties to the general public of Cochin City.

The authorities should also consider the launching of the project with the help of Railway. A parallel metro can be launched overhead the railway lines or along with it. This will help the public to move from Metro Rail station to normal Railway Station. In Kerala most of the Railway Stations are in Town/city, therefore there is no question of any inconvenience to the general public.

Some here are stating Ppl in Kochi cant afford the...

2010-07-03T20:08:21.701+01:00

Some here are stating Ppl in Kochi cant afford the charges in metro. What i have to say is that ppl in Kochi are really spendthefts, els Kochi wouldnt have this mch textile/retail showrooms. Another eg. is the renowned success of low floor buses which costs more than a metro.

My answer for Kochi Metro is YES, citing few reaso...

2010-07-02T16:42:11.642+01:00

My answer for Kochi Metro is YES, citing few reasons here...
1) The proposed route of Kochi metro is the most mobilised route in Kochi U/A, even DMRC has proved it with wide statistics...
2) Do you think its possible to widen certain road, viz. M.G Road, whose both sides are held by the biggest Landlords in Kerala, who dont even agree to the devpt of metro rail.
3) Even if those bottle necks are widened to easily allow the traffic flow, will be that adequate enough after 5 yrs, when Kochi has been projected with a huge growth potential with VICTT, PLNGT, IT parks, Shopping, Health& natural tourism, various SEZ's on the rise.
4) A metro rail which can carry far more no. of passengers than vehicles on road is projected Rs 3000Cr exp., is it possible to build road/rail which can produce the same result in dt budget, wen land rates in Kochi are rocket high??

Havent been to Kochi in a long time, so cant comme...

2010-01-18T07:20:23.183Z

Havent been to Kochi in a long time, so cant comment. Does it have the critical mass of travellers to make it profitable? Afterall, we cant have a system that is subsidised / fed by the govt. Bombay and Delhi have more than 11 million. Bangalore, Chennai and Hyd are more than 4 million odd.

If it has a good road transport system and if the traffic gridlock is not a big thing, then probably the metro can be deferred till a critical mass is there.

Anyway, we hardly have any scientfiic studies being done in the city when it comes to urban transports. Would like to hear from someone who has a knowledge in this about the project viability.

@ vikas, good comparison there with Bisleri :) Wel...

2009-12-25T15:07:55.836Z

@ vikas, good comparison there with Bisleri :)
Well you see, its good to see so much developmental conciousness among you guys who can put in their thoughts pro/against a METRO.

@ Critic, comparison in a positive sense, as you see here, is no issue. I've seen yourself indulging in the same on various forums under the same webaddress. So what's all the carry on? :?

@ Vinay Giridhar, hey thanks for the thoughts :) Vancouver is one city I love to visit sometime in my life, or even settle down if I get a chance. The city development plan of Vancouver is something I believe out cities must seriously look up at. I've written a couple of posts here about 'Vancouverism' if you haven't seen already.

About widening of roads, I agree its like increasing your trouser waist size for an obese man, sooner or later things will turn tight again. But that doesn't mean you needn't think about widening the roads. Quite a few here think that the traffic woes could be solved by thoughtful planning and expansion of Cochin roads, with a BRTS in place. Now, this is NOT a replacement for a METRO but a feeder service just to make things smooth for the residents. Both could and should complement each other as any developed city we see around. :)

@ Abid, thanks for the complements and for sharing your thoughts here.

@ Sreejith Sasi, good points raised. There is an argument going around that 'bigger cities like Ahmedabad, Nagpur and co haven't yet have a Metro, so why Cochin'.. That argument fail to see the special demographics of the city and suburbs and the quick-paced development it is experiencing currently. Taking nothing away from Chandigarh or Ahmedabad, but just because official Cochin boundary ends at Edappally doesn't mean that the city ends there. Aluva, Angamaly and Piravam which lie 20-30 km outside the CBD is still a continuous arm of the urban area and is as heavily populated as the city. See the picture in 10 years from now and see the hollowness in that argument. I agree to your point... This may just make us lose yet again to the other bigger Indian cities.

@ Ajay, thanks for the link :)

There are several comments posted by different peo...

2009-12-25T07:14:10.667Z

There are several comments posted by different people stating that it is enough for cochin to widen the roads and widen the bottleneck areas in different places in cochin. There is nothing wrong in doing that but do you geninunely think by widening the botteleneck area will solve the congestion problem of kochi once and forever. May be we are not farsighted that's why such childish comments are coming out. What I would request these people is that, just think minimum 20-25 years ahead and rethink your above solution, you yourselve will get the answer. As per the cost factor of metro rail, the minimum fare will be high in metro rail that's what these people are worried about. I have a different point of view regarding this matter. Did you ever notice when for the first time Bisleri and other drinking water was introduced it was priced somewhere between Rs 10 and 15 and it was a shock to many people. There were people who said, whose stupid idea is this to give 1 liter water for Rs 10. You know the fate of bottled drinking water, it has become part and parcel of every traveller now a days and the cost remains almost the same What else I have to say. My only request to keralaities is to be farsighted

I do not agree with most of the people here. Cochi...

2009-08-18T11:23:58.533+01:00

I do not agree with most of the people here. Cochin roads can be developed but it will not settle the traffic issue. I am not saying that the roads should not be developed but it is not an alternative for a rapid transit. You have written a wonderfully well compiled article touching almost all points. I agree with what you feel about brts, local train services and other options. It may be expensive but the government must check the possibilities of making the project profitable by allowing real estate development, advertisements on the racks etc etc. It might be easier to say things but I feel Cochin needs this one badly. There is no point to wait until 2025 and then think about it when things have totally crumbled. Your example is the best one. If Dublin city can have 4 types of transport facilities then why cant Cochin have at least one? We have to think in lines of the bigger developed foreign cities instead of telling that Bombay does not have it, Calcutta does not have it and so on.

Great article. One of the best I have read about the Cochin metro.

Well, Most indians are reactive rather than proact...

2009-08-17T20:44:12.944+01:00

Well, Most indians are reactive rather than proactive. So I am not surprised with many talking about metro being not needed now. Kochi or rather kerala missed the IT bus a decade ago and smaller cities like bangalore,pune,hyderabad have leaped ahead. Now these IT tier-1 cities are struggling with its infrastructure and losing out to tier-2 cities. As kochi expands it doesn't have to follow the same trajectory as these tier-1 cities. Building up better infrastructure, will not only ensure that we don't hit the infra blockade similar to above mentioned cities as we grow, but more importantly will alleviate the growth as companies look to better alternatives to the bangalores and chennais.

We can always wait till 2020 when we might have no other option but a MRTS. By then we would have now lost out to cities like nagpur/indore/ahmedabad etc .. and then the bangalores/chennais/pune etc would have already resolved its infra issues. MTRS won't be any cheaper in 2020, its going to probably cost 10 times then.

If we have to get ahead, we just have to think ahead. Yes, we are a poor state, but then that didn't stop us from getting an airport, five star hotels.. etc.

Kind of an afterthought, but I think this developm...

2009-08-13T08:34:44.689+01:00

Kind of an afterthought, but I think this development has a lot of relevance to our discussion - http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=RSSFeed-India&id=1ec97edb-4921-4188-b0a5-a1bf2c91a9e3&Headline=Allow+us+to+make+more+money+Metro

I am sure none of us want yet another real estate scam in Cochin.

And as to the argument that most modern cities are trying to encourage public transit to reduce congestion and pollution, I agree that we should not be caught out. But public transit is not necessarily an MRTS. Everything from a good city bus system qualifies as such and a developing economy should examine the least expensive choices before migrating to the capital intensive ones.

@ Anjali, thanks for the comment :) @ Jason, Ah, ...

2009-08-10T06:27:10.150+01:00

@ Anjali, thanks for the comment :)

@ Jason, Ah, a strong voice in favour of the Metro at last!! :) Yes Jason, I'd respond to your comments here and in 'Tharoor of Trivandrum' together.

Its been a see-saw of viability vs essentilality, productivity vs necessity and cost-effectiveness vs alternate arrangements in case of the comments here. We all would like to see a Metro buzz through our roads but not by draining public money. We as a III World country cant afford to waste bucks for space-ships for public because there are cheaper and better options. So I was honest when I said I dont wanna see these show-offs in Trivandrum at the expense of the tax-money we pay the Govt. We have more teething issues to sort out down there. :)

In the case of Cochin even DMRC boss Sreedharan thinks differently as per Ajay's comment here. I found a couple of brownie points in favour of the Cochin Metro even though some of the professionals here disagreed. I see some strong points in their arguments as well as your point-of-view but its a Catch 22 situation. My case is, leave the bait for the Private Consortia, if they're confident of breaking even then clear the way! Even the likes of Lucknow are thinking of the Metro now, so why cant we, eh? ;)

Ajay has spoken about evolution of public transport and I think it made a lot of sense. Road widening projects need a kick up the backside but again its not a replacement for mass transit. So there again, we're in a soup re our verdict :)

PS: Its not that I didn't want a METRO in Tvm Jason, it was specifically to Tharoor and getting the priorities right. Even the most ardent Tvm fighter in this world would agree. :)

Thanks for your valuable thoughts :))

I completely agree with what Mathew said. I see...

2009-08-09T23:32:13.550+01:00

I completely agree with what Mathew said. I see many of the posts here arguing for bigger and wider roads, more parking lots, and other car-focused improvements. Such actions fly in the face of international city planning ideals, which attempt to create a city that discourages cars and promotes efficient (though that term is far too flexible) public transport. Hence London with its 8 pound city centre congestion charge, Paris where nobody is more than 500 m from a Metro stop, etc, etc. Bangalore and Hyderbad are building Metros now, 10 years after growth really started to take off. The longer they (and Cochin) put off construction the more it will cost in the long run, in real money costs and in road congestion and quality of life. Also, as pointed out earlier, worldwide, subways are 'accepted' by all levels of society (Michael Bloomberg, billionaire Mayor of New York City, travels via subway daily), whereas buses are more or less relegated for lower and lower-middle class usage (think about it, if you could drive or take a bus, which one would you take?) Subways are rarely, if ever profitable in their own right, but the spin-off benefits are immense and a city cannot function without a proper transportation system! Imagine London without the Tube or New York without its extensive, 24-hr subway service! Proper transport includes a range of alternatives, but priority must be given to the ones that will benefit the most people in the most ways (which does not mean it needs to be the cheapest in monetary terms.)

A Metro Train is essential for Cochin because it i...

2009-08-07T16:15:17.685+01:00

A Metro Train is essential for Cochin because it is growing faster than many Indian metro cities. When Vallarpadam, Smart City, Infopark, LNG Terminal and dozens of shopping malls are finished in Cochin there will be 10 times more traffic in the city. Developing roads wont solve the problem. A Metro Train can help to remove those busses and cars from city.

So it is essential for a Metro-city like Cochin. It should be extended to Airport and another route through Marine Drive to Vallarpadam.

@ Ajay, Layman; there was an error in my quick add...

2009-08-07T12:54:28.621+01:00

@ Ajay, Layman; there was an error in my quick addition, we must consider the 6km Edappally-North stretch as well to make the reply factually correct (re the length of 4/6 laned roads within the CBD.

@ Venugopal, those are two different numbers. The 38000 in the news-report is the max travellers at peak-hour whereas Ajay's figure gives us the number per direction per hour.

@ Mathew, couldn't agree more there. Thats in a nutshell my initial thoughts about the project. :)

@ Sakshi, but Alas! thats inevitable! We need to tolerate such temporary inconveniences for a brighter tomorrow.

@ Nona, MG could be developed, yes! There was a project report submitted a few months back. It could be made a 6 lane thoroughfare if we clear those encroachments and free the one full lane taken up for parking now. Parking plazas will solve the issue, wont it? But whoz gonna take the initiative?

@ Stripes, thanks for dropping by. :)

@ Xenomann, hahaaaa yes bhai its true! Land acquisition has been a real roadblock for the infrastructure projects in our state. Thats where Tvm Road Devpment Project got stuck initially.

For the last time, Anonymous comments wont be published, so will be the fate of those with *#!@% tags addressing myself or other commentors here. If you have a difference in opinion learn to express it in a decent manner please.

Nona - I fail to understand why almost everyone ha...

2009-08-07T12:22:12.062+01:00

Nona - I fail to understand why almost everyone has given up on the idea of widening roads. Arterial roads have been successfully widened in cities across India - Ahmedabad, Indore, Delhi and in Trivandrum (even as we blog). It can be done at much lesser cost than a MRTS.

The city of Cochin is just about 10% the size of any tier I city. We are a long way off from needing an expensive MRTS. Cities like Cochin and Trivandrum will need such a solution 15 or 20 years from now and it is difficult to predict the traffic patterns so far into the future, which means building a MRTS now could be an expensive and disruptive white elephant.

scorpiogenius, i dont know how a metro will be suc...

2009-08-07T11:19:56.987+01:00

scorpiogenius, i dont know how a metro will be successful in kerala cities but im sure the city of cochin will need it in 10-15 years time. I agree that it will be a reality in 2025 only if we start working for it now.
the Tvm road development works are going on for the past 6-7 years and vizhinjam for the last 40n years..so if we want to see metro in 2025 then start now!

A very professional article and equally pro commen...

2009-08-07T10:25:12.908+01:00

A very professional article and equally pro comments.

I agree to most of the points raised in your article. My thoughts are similar to Mathew's. Cochin will need it in a decade. It has so many high profile industrial projects and a massive port good enough to throw up competition to the big boys like Mumbai and Vizag. Again, the real benefit of a Metro can only be judged after a few years. For eg look at the air quality of Delhi now and 10 years back. The relocation of industries, CNG buses and the Metro has done their own big parts in keeping things still under control.

So I agree to a good few points in the article... let the Metro be built if the private parties are confident to pitch in.

Adios. :-)

Well written post. It was a surprise to find this ...

2009-08-07T02:34:33.994+01:00

Well written post. It was a surprise to find this article as I was talking about Metro and the initial opposition to a friend a couple of days back.

I did not know the project was greenlighted. (Thanks to my non-existent habit of reading newspapers!)

IMO, widening of roads is going to be major challenge! Let's take an example of MG Road. Is it possible to widen it?

Metro for Delhi makes a whole lot of sense. But metro for Cochin?

Knock knock here comes the only girl to give her t...

2009-08-05T14:50:30.104+01:00

Knock knock here comes the only girl to give her two cents. Ahem am scared after seeing all you intelligent Metro specialists. All I want to say is I don't want to see all the roads dug up and the little city of Cochin end up like Delhi with all it's veins and arteries out for a decade. I am telling you it was a gruesome sight to see a beautiful city like Delhi in that state for years.*leaving the headquarters silently*

mm…well…I don’t have to add much…coz this is typic...

2009-08-05T12:52:20.213+01:00

mm…well…I don’t have to add much…coz this is typical SG….well researched and articu-late….But my two cents and my view is not specific to Cochin…

1) Any metro system is not necessarily a business investment where immediate profit is mandatory…It is a public service system whose benefit easily overcome the draw-back which is after all the initial capital to build it.. Besides the obvious advantage of speed and accessibility it has a greater influence on encouraging people to use public transport system…And when I say it we know that its only a metro or a rail transport system which could be ‘reliable’ public transport system.
2) Metro in any big city ..esp. Bangalore is not an extravagance….The trouble is that most Indians are not yet used to the culture of a reliable efficient public transport sys-tem and hence most of the commuters are usually the lower middle class-lower in-come come group…With a efficient system like a metro a whole segment of people would gladly stop using private transport in favour of public transport. And esp. the middle-class, upper middle class would be ready to pay a premium for it.
3) Most people abroad even if they have private cars use public transport as much as possible. And the reason is very much a social obligation to reduce pollution which is not considered a reason to ponder about by most people in our country. But over time with growing awareness we will have to adopt it as well.

The question whether a metro is needed in Cochin….Well from financial returns , current population estimates point of view>>> NO
Based on long term public investment necessity, future population growth, environment context >>> YES

Scorpiogenius, What kind of study has the Delhi ...

2009-08-04T12:52:35.857+01:00

Scorpiogenius,

What kind of study has the Delhi Metro guys done about Cochin Metro? Have they assessed clearly the traffic growth in coming years?

I'm confused when I read the newspaper block you pasted which says 38000 peak hr travellors in 2011. Mr. Ajay mentioned it needs 30000 at least.

But I dont think that much people will travel by metro.

Even Metro Rail is an extravagance for Bangalore and Hyderabad even though it is being constructed.

So I think it is not what Kochi needs now.

Widening those 2 rail-bridges, expansion of MG Road and parallel roads, more one-way systems, flyovers at major junctions, parking plazas are all the need of the hour.

Mr. Ajay's reply about those bottlenecks is correct. The traffic is heavy but it looks worse because of bad planning and narrow roads.

Widen the roads, improve rail-connectivity to Aluva, Ankamaly, Tripunitura, Kottayam etc the problems can be solved.

One last thing. You know it already but still I want to say it. METRO IS NOT GOING TO BE PROFITABLE IN KOCHI.

That money we can spent on building flyovers and parking towers. It will be nice to think about the Metro in 2030.

Venugopal.

Anish, Cochin's city road system has a lot to ...

2009-08-04T09:21:32.981+01:00

Anish, Cochin's city road system has a lot to improve. As you mentioned, it has only about 14 Kms of 4-laned roads. In comparison, the Trivandrum City Road Improvement Project alone is adding 23 Km of 4/6 lane roads while existing stretches like Kesavadasapuram - Plamoodu and Karamana - Killipalam account for another 12 Kms. Taking the NH-47 into account just confuses the issue as those stretches are used by a lot of traffic which is not related to the Cochin urban area.

The lesson is simple, Trivandrum and Cochin are pretty much identical in terms of size and population. Even with its better roads, Trivandrum is barely making do. Cochin needs more roads and wider roads right now. That much is do-able right now, without much ado. The sad part is that the administration and a lot of the people are fixated on the so-called "Metro", which is a solution for 2020 and not 2010.

2009-08-04T09:17:48.850+01:00

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

@ Ajay, WOW! That was descriptive! Thanks for that...

2009-08-04T01:42:21.562+01:00

@ Ajay, WOW! That was descriptive! Thanks for that. I think your comment features more de facto points than my whole article! lol... Your observation about those one-off bottlenecks in leniar stretches of roads of Cochin is right. Widening of roads should top the list, no two voices there, but we must find some way for fast n efficient transit. If not the Metro, then something else.

As I've mentioned, the takers of this project will surely look into all these numbers and facts before the first concrete is poured. We have to wait a few more years before something concrete evolves out of all these discussions and calcualtions going on. Meanwhile the miseries of Cochin populace continues... :(

@ Layman, I considered the whole district. I'll list out:
MG Road 4.5km
Marine Drive 1.5 km
SA Road 3 km
Kaloor-Kadavanthra Road 3 km
Panampilly Nagar 1.5 km
NH 47 Kaloor-Angamaly 30 km
NH 47 Bypass 17 km (not completed fully)
A couple of small residential avenues like the Jawaharlal Nehru Road could also be included. So even though there is nothing to be proud about within the core city limits (~14km of 4 lane roads) the district still has the numbers in Kerala context.

@ Venusplanet, It would be nice to reassess the demographics and travel pattern when all the big projects are completed. But again there will be at least a decade between them and the planners may be forced to think of a realignment via Vallarpadom and co!!

@ Sanju, wide roads are inevitable for Cochin but the need for a different mode of transport still exists. Lets wait n watch bro... :)

@ U-vone, Of course Metros are expensive and your arguments doesn't surprise me brother. Kerala is infamous to pull everything down as you said. Interesting to see what would be left standing at the end of our lives. :)

You've kind of echoed what Ajay and other commentors here have said. I'm waiting to see if there would be any counter-arguments supported by facts, or else my post will only be half-complete :)

Honestly dont think Cochin has grown enough to get...

2009-08-03T23:48:45.575+01:00

Honestly dont think Cochin has grown enough to get a Metro. I'm used to this one in New Delhi and believe me, it is expensive. the Delhiites can afford it but certainly not our poor malayalee fellows. The fares are going to be sky-high. Who will pay 25 bux to travel from Aluva to South when a bus will take you in < 1/2 price?

Cochin need wide roads, damn it! Metros are necessary when you've run out of options and not the first choice you look for. Construct more parallel roads, flyovers, subways, widen the roads to 6lanes and then if the probelms still persit think of bigger things.

Some of the points in your blog make sense ok,but dear friend you wait and see. Our own Cochin people themselves will pull this down. Do you think the bus lobby is going to sit idle? When the process gains heat the protests will get bigger and this will get stuck, any doubt?

So let us think about widening those roads instead of talking about rocket ships and flying saucers.

PS: Im positive for this project. Would like to see this happen, but have no hope.But I dont think it is going to solve the traffic issues in Cochin like you said.